October 20

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Il Permesso di Soggiorno (a.k.a. The Holy Grail)

By Rick

October 20, 2012


One of the first things that you’ll notice about living in Italy is that many things are still done the old-fashioned way; which is to say as inefficiently as possible.  For example,  often you must physically go to the post office and wait in endless lines to accomplish the smallest of tasks—the least of which has anything to do with mailing letters and other such things that Americans normally associate with post office activities.

On the positive side, there is an enormous sense of victory when these goals are (eventually) achieved.  Case in point is the coveted “Il Permesso di Soggiorno,” which is a sort of residency card that long-term sojourners in Italy should (theoretically) obtain.  The first step in the process is to go to the nearest post office and pick up an application packet.  I know, this sounds like something that your beagle could do for you, but let me assure you that it is not.  The trick is that there are—for some unknown reason—a limited number of these little jewels scattered throughout the city and your job is to engage in a sort of scavenger hunt in order to secure one in your own possession.

Il Permesso di Soggiorno

You might best approach this quixotic expedition by making a game out of it: pretend that you are Indiana Jones and you are searching for the Holy Grail while evil forces conspire to foil your plans.  You may chuckle, but this analogy is closer to the truth than you’d believe.  As I said, the precious packet is as rare as a black pearl and you’re opposed by indifferent (or worse, antagonistic) public employees who seem to gain sadistic pleasure in thwarting your efforts.

La solita folla

So you must recruit allies for these missions.  The ultimate maneuver would be to make friends with a post office worker.  While this may seem like a solid plan, I wouldn’t count on it.  Post office workers have no friends—indeed, this was a condition of their employment.  These people are un-friendable, so don’t even waste your time.

It doesn’t really matter, though, because any random Italian will do.  If they grew up in Italy, then they’ll have a few shortcuts to share with you, gleaned from a lifetime of working the system.  It is an innate sort of knowledge that all Italians seem to possess and I never cease to marvel at it.  They know how to figure things out, to find creative solutions to ostensibly insurmountable obstacles.  It is “l’arte d’arrangiarsi,” the art of getting by, as they say.

From my own experience, I can offer a few small pieces of advice.  First, you’ll likely have more success finding this packet at a bigger post office than the smaller ones.  At least your odds are better because they are allotted a great number of these precious gems.  I eventually had luck at the post office located on the north side of the newly renovated Piazza di San Silvestro (see map in the tool bar).

il permesso di soggiorno

Second piece of advice; go in the morning shortly after the post office opens.  And you don’t really have to wait in the line to just pick up the packet.

Third, go directly to the “Sportello Amico,” which are windows dedicated to this type of activity and should contain someone who speaks at least a little English.  But don’t let the word “amico” fool you.  He/she is no friend of yours, believe me.  Indeed, they are the enemy.  Stay focused and show no fear–they can smell it and once they do, you might as well turn around and go home.

So there’s Part One of your mission, should you choose to accept it.  Once you actually have the packet in hand, I’ll discuss the next steps in your quest.  Maybe in about a month or so…

In bocca al lupo! (good luck!)

*2016 UPDATE*

I’ve recently compiled ALL of my Permesso di Soggiorno knowledge into one handy guide, including the info from this post. Get it here:

 

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About the author

Living in the Caput Mundi and trying to decipher Italian culture for the English speaking world.

  • Keith – I have all my documents for my dual citizenship ready and am waiting on the next available date for my appointment which is in October. The citizenship people are taking 2 months of vacation. I now understand that the waiting period to get the citizenship application approved by the government is 1 – 4 years! I just retired and bought a house in a small town in Italy. My plan was to move there ASAP. So do I apply for the 91-365 day visa in order to move there while I await the approval of the citizenship application? Then after I move how many days do I have to register for the permesso? or can I simply continue to renew the extended stay visa. I will be a pensionato in Italy. Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.

    Signed,
    Frustrated and anxious LOL

  • Great post! Certainly helpful in the last few days as I renewed mine for the first time! It was easier than getting the permesso but we’ll see how it goes when I have to go to the Questura in the next few days. The marca da bollo now costs 16 euro even though on the application forms it says 14.62.

    • Thanks, Keith, and thanks for letting me know about the price increase. I’ll update this post to reflect the new charge. I hope the you get your renewed Permesso without further incident…Ha! Ciao!

  • Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think European Union citizens need a “permesso di soggiorno”. They just need to register at their local “anagrafe” within 3 months of arriving in Italy.

    • Hi Bryan, yes, that’s right–but it also depends on what your intentions are in Italy (work?). If you’re an EU citizen you don’t really need to mess around with the permesso di soggiorno. What you should establish is your residenza. With that, you can get your identity card and your health card, and with those two things, you’ll have official “existence” in Italy. And yes, you can even get a job.

  • I wonder if many people who already have US passports understand what people go through in our country to legalize immigration status. The Italian Permesso di Soggiorno process is a party compared to the money, time and stress that every single immigrant who goes to the US endures.

    I’ve practiced immigration law and I can assure everyone that our government treats immigrants 100 times worse than anything we see in Italy.

    Thanks for the helpful information. Seriously, though – immigration status is a privilege, not a right, and thus, we must work for it and value it when it is granted.

    • Hi Jodie, thanks for the feedback. You know, you’re absolutely right; the American process is much more rigorous and expensive. I have a bit of fun at the expense of the Italian bureaucracy, but the fact is that it’s kinder–not to mention a price bargain–compared to the U.S. I think the Permesso cost me about $100 USD total, while a Green Card is about $1,000 for the applicant and another $400 for the person sponsoring (correct my figures if they’re wrong, by all means). Not to mention that the Italians are very lax about the enforcement of their immigration laws whereas the US is extremely vigilant.

      Here in my humble little blog, I try to present the facts as accurately as possible–but the opinions and commentary that I offer are mostly to add entertainment value to an otherwise dry topic. (Well, they entertain me, anyway.)

      Please continue to offer your insights here whenever you feel so inspired. And your reality check is duly noted–the granting of residence status is truly a privilege no matter which side of the world you come from. Grazie!

  • Rick, good luck…this is great! Don’t forget to note that pesky little problem for American citizens that I’m sure you know….if you put your city of birth in the application for the permesso then you are totally screwed when time comes to get your Residency…your permesso will not match your passport (USA passports show state of birth) and you will be sent to the US embassy to get an affidavit signed, and then on the Prefettura (Marca di Bollo required of course) who will notarize the affidavit again. In my case, the only amusing part of this waste of money and time was when the supervisor at the prefettura called the municipio asking them why they were sending me to his office. The shouting match ended with the prefettura grudgingly notarizing the document!

    • Steve, thanks for the input. In fact, I hadn’t remembered that point. In line 38 of Modolo 1, they ask for city of birth–so you’re saying that we should put the State instead? (for example, write Illinois INSTEAD of Chicago)? Or write both?
      Great comment, thanks again. And I had a good laugh when I imagine the disgruntled government employee doing his best to display his displeasure while signing your document. Hilarious in its predictability! Cheers, Rick

      • Ciao Rick, I cannot readily see an answer to your question about whether to enter STATE only or both STATE and CITY on Modulo 1. Did you ever get a clarification of this. I received an actual PdiS Kit from l’ufficio postale in Orbetello and your instructions are “meravigliosi”! I was going to have the local union trade office help me with the PdiS, but with your instructions, I think I can actually do this myself! Thanks for letting me know what the answer to this “State/City” question is. Grazie….

        • Hi John, you should write whatever it says on your passport, which is probably the state and not the city. Don’t confuse those government employees, the don’t respond well to anything outside of the box!

          • Grazie per la tua veloce risponda! On another note, I was recently reading an expat’s “Florence” blog where she mentioned her 2014 national health service cost rose to 2,100 euro for 2014 (Mama Mia!) She was paying 389 euro just a couple years ago. Do you have any information on the current formula for the health insurance in Italy? I read your blog on the Iscrizione Volotaria and how to calculate cost for joining in the national health service, which indicated a minimum 387,34 and I’m curious if the formula percentages have changed? Ancora una volta, thanks so much for your helpful blog info. I’ve printed your PdiS instructions and put them in my “PdiS” file for future reference… cordiali saluti…..

            • Hmm…no, sorry, I don’t have any updated info on the healthcare premiums. But that’s quite a jump in a short time! If it’s truly that expensive, then it’s worth exploring the private insurance option, which is about the same price.

              • Grazie Rick e non ti preoccupare; no matter what the cost is for the Tessera Sanitaria, compared to the US health system’s premiums, co-pays, annual out of pocket, etc., the Italian Health Service is still much better! Ciao…

  • Thank you Rick! this is the most clever information i had up to now! and you’re sooo right! i lived in Rome for 8 months and now plan to go back. Now i’m trying to figure out the right way to get the documents(visa, permesso..). The problem with italians is that you can never have one right and clear information from them. I’ve been told one thing at la questura and some othe thing at the italian ambassy in Canada. It’s always so confusing!
    It’s also true you need to find an ally but that’s not always easy too. At least, i suppose you had you dear wife to support you in that terrible bureaucracy battle!
    I look foward to read the next steps of the expedition ((:

    • Ciao Karina! Thanks for the comment. You are absolutely correct about never getting a straight answer–if you ask the same question to five different employees, you’ll get five different responses. It drives me cray. I should have included that little fact in my post.
      By the way, I’m posting Part II of the process later this week, so check back in a few days or so. There will be a lot more actual information (and a little less sarcasm).
      Please let me know if you have any specific questions and I’ll do my best to answer them.
      Ciao, Rick

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